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2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
https://tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7797		 Page 6 of 35
Author:  Soul Reaver [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Finally some handfulls. Just like Texas, now we see the drivers really having to drive their cars. The sign that Viso is complaining just prove that they're on the right way. :D
Author:  iks [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
I agree that the cars shouldn't be easy to drive like the previous Dallara but making it so difficult that the drivers are on the edge of hitting the wall every lap or spinning out, and thus, not reaching the maximum speeds possible...no.

CART got it right in the early to mid 90s.

That said, it's still fun to watch them twitch around despite slower speeds.
Author:  Ian-S [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
I think they've gone from one extreme to the other (too much to too little downforce).
Author:  electrodevo [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Chris A wrote:
Stock car drivers typically only have to worry about their race fate, not their actual fate when they pack race. That makes it much more easy and pleasant to watch.


I must confess, I'm personally not a fan of the plate racing of stock cars either. I find it too random and generally dull as a result. All it tends to do is create conditions for the inevitable 20 car crash. :p
Author:  Gaara [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Ian-S wrote:
I think they've gone from one extreme to the other (too much to too little downforce).


Well they always said getting it right would be a work in progress.
Author:  sennadesillva [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
jeez final practice speed are only 214.0
Author:  Cartman [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
smokyburnout wrote:
EJ Viso wrote:
@Mikeconwayindy I don't blame you brother. I think was a wise decision

EJ Viso wrote:
If more downforce is not fitted for this race I'm not racing

Next thing you know, they won't want to race at Indy next year.
Author:  Gaara [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
If Viso not racing then all the drivers would breath a sigh of relief.
Author:  Gaara [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Seems Viso hasn't come out in practice yet. Strange having another practice after quali.

Edit: He's on track now.
Author:  Tommy Vercetti [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
While Conway's reason is understandable, EJ Viso comes off as a jackass.

No one forced you to drive the cars, either race them or fuck off.
Author:  sennadesillva [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
exactly. kinda an odd statement coming from a guy who supposedly wants to own his own team in the series next year haha
Author:  Gaara [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
All mouth no guts.
Author:  Schumifan [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
None of us have driven the cars so we can't really comment - are you only allowed to be worried if you've had a big accident in the last couple of years?

I think a bit of anxiety is acceptable in the current Indycar oval climate. Let's remember that Viso almost had his head taken off by a concrete wall a few years ago - oval racing or not, it's understandable that he has his personal safety in mind.
Author:  Tommy Vercetti [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
http://www.wunderground.com/q/zmw:92331.1.99999

This will suck.
Author:  Ian-S [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Tommy Vercetti wrote:
No one forced you to drive the cars, either race them or fuck off.


Easy for you to say.
Author:  ellis [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Refusing to race them is understandable. Saying "I won't race unless this specific change is mad" (which ironically would make it worse) isn't how to do it.
Author:  kals [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Schumifan wrote:
None of us have driven the cars so we can't really comment - are you only allowed to be worried if you've had a big accident in the last couple of years?

I think a bit of anxiety is acceptable in the current Indycar oval climate.


I agree with this, anxiety is natural considering pretty much all these drivers are used to a high downforce configuration which means on ovals like this they feel much more comfortable at high speeds. This is probably one of the first times Viso has ever been properly challenged on an oval, so going from high downforce/easy full throttle to low downforce/unstable balance has spooked him.

No-one has the right to criticize a driver for admitting they are afraid and not feeling safe. Even someone like Viso.
Author:  StefMeister [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Wasn't the aero package there racing with put together based off driver opinions & feedback from testing done at the track not just last week but earlier in the year?
Author:  Ian-S [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Testing done with 5-10 cars, not 20, aero is very different with a pack of 20 cars.

I think you guys are stuck with the mentality that there are only two aero options with these cars, high downforce & low downforce, and whenever anybody (whether it be an observer or a driver) says the cars need more downforce, it doesn't mean going back to the super high downforce of the old cars.

It's plainly obvious that the cars need a tiny bit more downforce, they may be just about drivable round the corners on their own with this aero configuration, but as soon as they get reasonably close (and I mean 5-10 car lengths back) they're being effected so much by the wake of the car infront that they are slower through the corner than when running on their own.

I'm pretty sure this is how the race will go (unless they make last minute changes), after the first few laps, if someone doesn't crash, they'll get so spread out that it'll make Formula 1 look like wheel to wheel racing, there will be little overtaking apart from when someone is on new tyres vs old tyres, and if there are any crashes, it'll be the car following that crashes because the car infront has crossed it's bow and taken all the air off the wings, leaving it to rely totally on mechanical grip, which is a futile wish at best, this will happen in turn 2 & 4 too.

A couple more degrees on the wing angle, or Gurney flaps, could help avoid that without taking it back to high downforce pack racing. It's also no safer than pack racing, if anything the risk of a crash is higher because you're relying on mechanical grip to save you if something goes wrong.
Author:  chimp [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 MAVTV 500 at California Speedway [2012 FINALIE]
Drivers said they wanted this type of specs for the race so they got it.
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